About 5 years ago, at the behest of a Pulitzer prize
nominated writer, David Black, I had the privilege and honor to spend 5 hours
with Sid Bernstein. The interview was to
be published that month in a national magazine, but because of legal issues the
magazine folded.
SID
BERNSTEIN INTERVEIW
Interviewed
by John DeBellis
He’s the man
responsible for bringing the Beatles to America. That could be enough for several past and
present lives. Add to that the
Rolling Stones, the Kinks, Manford Mann, the Dave Clark Five… the British
Invasion. He was also the first man to
book a rock and roll act into Carnegie Hall, and Madison Square Garden, where he
broke the color line bringing in James Brown.
Oh, and he was also the first to book a rock and roll band into a
stadium, (the Beatles in Shea stadium). On a lesser note, but more significant to my
stomach, he took me to Pasty’s restaurant on 117th St and First Avenue
for the best brick oven pizza I ever had.
All that said, I think his greatest accomplishment is that he is as nice
a person as he is successful. To
rephrase, Will Rodgers, “I haven’t met a man that wouldn’t like Sid
Bernstein.”
JOHN: As a tailor’s
son, how did you get involved in promotions?
SID: I went to
James Monroe High school, a big school in the East Bronx. My first promotion was the first Alumni
reunion dance. I got all the names and addresses
out of the yearbook. It came off very
well. So I got the yearbook from the
year before that and did that class. And
the one the year before that was even bigger.
So my first promotion was in gym at James Monroe. But my next promotion was at the Hunt’s Point
Palace, which was a bigger room. And I
raised the price a little bit. Then I
started to book Latin dances and concerts.
JOHN: Why Latin?
SID: Because I
lived on Tremont Avenue. It didn’t
become Jewish and Italian; it became very Spanish. My father wanted to open up a dry cleaning
store for me. My head wasn’t into dry cleaning. I said this is pretty good I’m
making more money than my father did. It
was a challenge and it was original.
JOHN: You were
living by your wits.
SID: Yeah whatever
it was. Yeah I like that. You can say that. It’s even stronger than that (laughing).
JOHN: Wits and
wisdom.
SID: (joking) In
tune with incredible instincts.
JOHN: You’re a
World War II veteran.
SID: I
saw a lot of action in Europe. I did manage to come home in one piece though.
JOHN: How does a
guy brought up on American Swing music return from World War II, where he spent
some time in England, two decades later bring an unknown rock and roll band
from Liver pool and book them into Carnegie Hall and then Shea stadium?
SID: I loved England’s gentility and it’s civility. I’m from the Bronx, with a Bronx accent. I
love the beauty of its language, the ways it’s spoken. I love the green grass of England and the flowers. I love the island. It’s an island. The people were nice. I loved their form of
government, their two houses. When I
came back home, I continued to read English newspapers. I used to go to the out of town newspaper
stand on forty-second street. The
British newspapers were not as prevalent as they are now. I’d pick up one or two papers. I read about four kids creating havoc in the
town of Liverpool. I’d never heard of
Liverpool before. I knew of London. I hear Kids were falling for them in other
cities. I read the second week, the third
week, the fourth week. With each week the
stories kept getting bigger. I thought this
looks like something I should look into.
JOHN: Where did
you go from there, you’re next step?
SID: Some how I
find Brian Epstien’s number. I called
him up. He hadn’t yet moved his
operation yet to England. His mother
answered the phone.
JOHN: The Beatle’s
manager mother answered the phone?
SID: Brian was still
living at home, upstairs. His mother calls him to the phone. I can still hear the footsteps coming down
the stairs like it was yesterday. That’s
a phone call I’ll never forget.
JOHN: I’d never forget that, but I’d probably have
lost the number… I could lose a tattoo.
SID: (Laughs) So Brian says, you’re the first
American to call me. I tell him I want
to bring the Beatles to America. He
says. “You want to bring my boys to America?
Why do you want to take them to America, we’re not getting any airplay?
Why should I take them to America if they’re not getting air play?
JOHN: How did you
answer him?
SID: I get this
idea. It wasn’t a stroke of genius.
Maybe, God did come down, who knows I believe in God. So I say to him, “the language is the same, Mr.
Epsteen.”
I’m calling him Epsteen and he’s calling me Bernstine.
This is the first call. So he
corrects me. He says, “My name is Epstine,
Mr.Bernstine.” So I say, “My name is Bernsteen,
Mr. Epsteen.” That was the first
call.
JOHN: That’s
hysterical.
SID: Being the fact that he didn’t laugh, I thought
he had no sense of humor.
JOHN: What did you tell him?
SID: I said, “I’d
like to present them in New York.” I
want to give it to you accurately, as I said it in my book?
JOHN: What is the
title of your book?
SID: “Not Just The
Beatles.”
JOHN: Great title.
SID: It was a soft
cover book. The front cover was of Abbey
road, which we paid a handsome fee for.
JOHN: Why did you
bring them here, to New York?
SID: I had to
think of something. I said, “I think they’d make it here, because well, we
speak the same language and of all the crazy stuff going on there could happen
here.”
JOHN: So you made
that up on the spot.
SID; Yeah, I
adlibbed that. So he asked, “When do
you want to present them?” “From my experience with dance and with Latin concerts,
it takes six or eight weeks to promote. So I say, “Six to eight weeks from now.”
He said, “Oh that’s too soon.” He was
getting spoiled by all the attention he was getting. “I wouldn’t want my boys
going so soon.” He never said the
Beatles, he always said “my boys”. It was
February or March of sixty-three, so we settled on a year ahead. That year ahead turned out to be February 12th
Lincoln’s birthday, 1964. I picked
Lincoln’s birthday because I knew the kids would be out of school.
PEFECT TEN:
Talking about thinking ahead, wow. To me staying in the moment is thinking too
far ahead. That was brilliant.
SID: At that time
I left a 500 hundred-dollar deposit for the date. They sent you downstairs to the box office. In the mailroom was the man considered the
dean of Box office people, Ned Pasnick.
He, said, “I never heard about them.
Are they good?” I said “They were great.” I hadn’t heard them yet. I asked, “What we should charge?” He says, “If they’re great we can charge top
dollar.” Top dollar then was $3.50, $4.50
or $5.50. I said, “Great.” I really didn’t exactly know what I was
doing. But I knew after reading about
them in the news I had to get them. I
was in love with England. Maybe I
dreamed of real green grass.
JOHN: This was way
before they were booked on Ed Sullivan.
SID: A year
earlier. I found out later from Ed
Sullivan that when he put them on he hadn’t heard them yet. Mr. Pasnick, asked me want I wanted the
tickets to say. I said “Sid Bernstein
Presents The Beatles”. He prints the
tickets. Ten days later they’re
ready. They sat there and collected dust
for almost a year.
JOHN: A year?
SID: A year. No
body cared about them yet. Suddenly in
October of 63 their records start to play and play and play.
JOHN: When you
heard them, what was your reaction?
SID: I liked it. I
liked their act. I felt like I done
something. But all I done was dial the right number. That’s all I really did.
JOHN: If you
didn’t have the love of England you wouldn’t have had the curiosity.
SID: Whatever you
want to attribute it to. My religious friends say God did it.
JOHN: Branch
Richy, the old Dodger GM, said, “luck is the residue of design.” I believe in it a little different. I believe that luck is the residue of grand
design. That there’s something more
powerful helping us pull the strings.
SID: Could very well be. The booker from Carnegie Hall hadn’t heard the
Beatles yet, either. But maybe because I
sent her flowers to thank her, I get a call from her saying I got a date that’s
open Mr. Bernstein. The Beatles were
coming on Feb 12th. The Feb 15th date
was open. I take it. I come up and give her a box of candy. A couple of days later I get another
call. There’s another date that opened
up. So it’s within that same ten -day time area. My first ad reads Sid Bernstein Presents the
Beatles on Feb 12 , Shirley Bassey on Feb 15..and three days later Count Basie
and Tony Bennett. Bernstein presents the
Beatles, Bassey, Basie and Bennett.
JOHN: Wow, great
bookings and you can’t be much more poetic than that.
SID: I became a
manager of Count Basie and Tony Bennett for awhile. …But forget my life. With the Beatles I lived at the John Radem, a
big building on 12th street.
Kids used to form lines waiting to see me. “Could they get a front row seat for the
Beatles?” I knew nothing about the box
office. It was all so new. I didn’t even put seats aside for the press. People were selling their seats for $150 for balcony
to $200 for middle section.
JOHN: How did booking them in Shea Stadium happen? Where did the idea come from?
SID: When I came back the next day. This is still before the show or Sullivan. Ned, the dean of the Box office, said, “I’d
never seen anything like that. Kids
slept over night to get tickets.” This
is winter now. People came with
mattresses and blankets for their kids. They
all wanted to be first on line. I
started that happening. There were still
tickets for Bassy and Bennett and Basie .
The Beatles were sold out immediately.
I told Brian we could have sold out Fifty days… We could have made thousands. We could have made 50 times the money. Carnegie Hall still has the same 2030 seats. Brian and I hadn’t met yet. We finally meet for the first time prior to
the Sullivan show and Prior to my thing (Carnegie Hall). He loved the way I handled it. We agreed before he left New York, that we’d
book them in Madison Square garden.
Madison Square Garden was the old Aladdin. It had 17,000 seats. But I
changed my mind I called Brian. There
are a lot of kids calling me. Their
fathers are calling me. Their mothers
are calling me. The Garden didn’t
satisfy our needs. I want to change it
from Madison Square Garden to Shea Stadium.
He asked, “How many seats is that,
sir? I said, “Fifty-five thousand.” “Do you think you’ll fill it?” I said, “Brain, I‘ll give you ten dollars for
every seat that is empty.” He said, “Do
you mean that, every empty seat?” I
said, “No, not every seat that was empty, every seat that is not sold!”
JOHN: I guess you didn’t have to pay him anything.
SID: The first time Brian stayed at the
Plaza. The boys stayed in the suite next
to him. I saw the boys looking out the
window. They couldn’t believe what was
happening out there. This is bigger than
what happened in England. Kids everywhere
on Fifty-ninth street, around the Plaza.
The Beatles are looking out waving at the kids. It was quite a scene.
PERFECT: Did you
ever imagine being the guy behind such an event?
SID: I happened to
guess right at the right moment--period.
JOHN: But, then
you brought the Stones here. How did you
find out about them?
SID: I’m reading
the newspapers and I see that the next group coming up is the Stones--right on
the heels of the Beatles. I called their
first manager. And he said, “I was
hoping you would call me.”
JOHN: It makes
sense that they would have heard of you by then.
SID: So I make a
deal also for Carnegie Hall. The Box
office Lady let me in. It must have
been all those flowers and stuff I sent her. The Beatles were no trouble… lots of girls. The Stones were black-jacketed guys, a rough
crowd. A whole different scene between
the (Stone’s) black leather jackets and the (Beatles) pretty dressed girls,
with the ribbons in their hair, teenagers, standing on the seats screaming, nothing
broken. With the Stones the pictures on
the walls were shaking. She says to me
“Don’t ever, ever, ever come back in again.”
So I brought the next one in. The
Dave Clark Five.
PEFECT TEN: I
didn’t realize that. Who else?
SID: I brought in
the next twelve guys in. The Dave Clark
Five, The Kinks, Manford Man,… something like that. It was the British
Invasion. They took over from Sinatra,
Perry Como--every body… The air waves were full of the Beatles. It changed
everything. The Beatles were everywhere.
JOHN: You not only
brought us the Stones but one of the most underrated British bands, the Kinks.
SID: I was not a
jerk.
JOHN: You picked some winners. What was it like working with the Stones?
SID: I liked them,
but the Beatles had melody. I was not a
fan of the Stone’s music. I made a lot
of money with them. I brought them over
five times.
JOHN: I heard they
were wilder too.
SID: Oh… Yeah…That’s
for another time.
JOHN: How did George Martin come into the
picture?
SID: George Martin
was doing comedy records.
JOHN: Comedy
records?
SID: Yeah, that’s how
he started. Peter Sellers…British
comedians. Brian brought him because he worked
for the record company. He said he heard something. He took the shot. Brian later told me eight people passed. He (George Martin) didn’t. He’s very special, you see him, there’s an
aura about him. He was the fifth Beatle, not Murray The K. Brain was the sixth and I was the
twenty-fourth.
JOHN: I think you’re the number No. 1 American
Beatle. While all this was happening
with the Beatles. What was your favorite
experience?
SID: I love
people. It gave me contact with people,
young and old. And the right and privilege
to meet new people everyday. That’s my way of life. That’s why I had a lot of kids of my own.
JOHN: You have six
kids.
SID: My wife cheated
me--I wanted eight. I made some
money. I got a larger apartment with
each kid at the John Adams till we out grew that.
JOHN: You also bought
the American group the Rascals to Shea Stadium.
SID: No… I got
them into Madison Square Garden … They were the second big pop act to play
there. Up until then the Garden didn’t take that kind of acts. Pop acts. I brought James Brown in first. It was all black. When I booked him I got him off the chitlin
circuit. My wife and I and maybe two
other white couples were there to see a black act. There were no incidents. You should see what
James Brown said about me.
JOHN: What did he
say?
SID: Some kid just did a documentary on me, which
they’re editing. It’ll be another month or two before they show it. James Brown likens me to a white Martin
Luther King of the music business. Said,
I broke the color barrier at the Garden and uh... I forget where else.
JOHN: You don’t
see color.
SID: I grew up in
Harlem with blacks.
JOHN: You see
artists.
SID: Yes…I looked
for talent first, always talent. The
only thing I don’t talk about much, and don’t ask me, is the Bay City Rollers
too. I brought them here. People thought I was brining over another
Beatles over. I never said the Beatles. I just
mentioned Shea stadium and they thought they were the Beatles. You should see the money I got. I became their New York Manager.
JOHN: A few years
ago when the Beatle album came out with all the number one hits. It sold off the charts and much of the sales
went to college kids. Why do you think?
SID: The music is
still relevant and they got a great head start, look who they are. It’s like saying the Yankees. Not long ago I got a call to talk in a school
in Nashville; the Nashville University Of Entertainment and Music. Half the school turned out to hear me. It wasn’t me--it was the Beatles. Nine out of ten questions were about the
Beatles. As a result of that talk, the
dean calls his friend in Cleveland who’s from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
and I got to speak at the Rock and Roll Hall of fame. Nice turn out.
JOHN: I think the
Beatles were the band that broke down all the world barriers. In a way they brought the world together.
SID: They brought
people together--everybody singing, strangers standing around holding each
other singing. It’s amazing what the
Beatles have done.
JOHN: Especially
as I get older there music becomes more relevant. I love John’s song, “In My
Life.”
SID: My favorite
song in the whole world is “Imagine.” By
my favorite songwriter. My other
favorite is Jacque Brel. The show is
unbelievable and the music is so great.
JOHN: Is there any music today that you like or
knocks you out.
SID: No. It doesn’t knock me out. But then again, I don’t listen much. I don’t know how to put a cassette on, or how
to play a record, or cd. I get my sons
and daughters to come over. I don’t have
a car. I don’t know a lot that’s going
on.
JOHN: You still go
out and see music.
SID: Yeah, but I
don’t go out as much. Sine I hurt my leg
my kids put me under house arrest. If
you go see anyone interesting give me a call. I’ll go.
JOHN: Is there any
talent that should have made it or you should have handled?
SID: I made my
mistakes. I passed up on Barbara Streisand,
I passed up on Neil Diamond. Streisand, what
I hear about her, would have shortened my life. I’m just kidding. She’s a dear friend.
JOHN: Did you hang
out socially with the musicians and celebrities.
SID: My kids, no celebrities.
For awhile I was close and friendly with Tony Bennett. He was my favorite singer.
JOHN: Did you ever
take the Beatles here? The Pizza is
amazing.
SID: I brought
them.
JOHN: I heard that
John Lennon used to call you about Italian restaurants.
SID: Well, I took
him to Palucci’s on Mulberry Street.
John gave them the biggest tip they ever had. He came there with six or seven other Rock
stars, Harry Nilsson, and a few others.
I was told they were the most well behaved polite customers.
JOHN: What do you
think drew everyone to Lennon?
SID: How do you
describe charisma? He’s one of those figures that comes along once in a generation.
They people would turn out for Paul, turn out for George, but mobs would turn
out for Lennon.
JOHN: What’s
next?
SID: Paul called
me. We talked about getting
together. I think that if Paul calls me
one more time. I want to do Paul again,
for a cause. My big thing is for cancer research
and to end world hunger. That’s my
thing. The things I’m interested in.
JOHN: Everyone
that I have spoken to about you has nothing but kind things to say.
SID: Well, I defy
whoever it was. I think it was Lincoln, who
said you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all
the people all the time. We’ll I’ve
fooled all the people all the time.
JOHN: I don’t think so.
SID: I got to tell
you this, though, it’s been an interesting life. No regrets. I made my mistakes but I enjoy my
life more and more.
JOHN: Is there anything in your life that you want
to do now?
SID: To be a
grandpa.
